Articulation

Why practice man

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Part 4-Articulation

Bertrand Catry

Hello Francis Delaye.

We are at your home for this fourth interview. We are gathered in your good house a few kilometers from Chartres where it is so good to live. The seasons pass. And we have the joy of meeting today on the subject… I would like to call it the subject of the articulation of the man you are, with the theologian and the man of God that you have been for many years, at least since your conversion, young man, a few decades ago. You will be getting closer to your centenary in a few days; in a few days you will celebrate your 97th birthday. The first episode – I remind it for our listeners – we had dedicated it to your youth. The second part, the second film, we had dedicated it to your maturity. The third finally, in autumn, to your faith, your belief. And today I wonder about this meeting place, the  knee (“I-us”), this articulation that allows us to always move forward, where, in fact, meet themselves the stake of you as a person with others, with the world;  the us, the I-me, the us, the others, and of this articulation where we will notice points of friction, points of softness, points of recapitulation, points of coherence, but also questions because it never goes without saying, the articulation. Sometimes it hurts, we wake up on the morning…. And sometimes you don’t even think about it so much the articulation is well oiled.

So, in this subject of this fourth interview, the I-us, you and the others, you and the world, tell us about your person, yourself, with your family, and perhaps remind us of the husband you were, you would have wanted to be, or the husband that you were with Evelyne your dear wife; and also, with your children since she gave you six children. Remind us of the husband you have been all these years with Evelyne, who a few years ago – you told me earlier – would have written, has written more than six hundred poems. Remind us of Evelyne in a few words, in a few pictures in fact.

Francis Delaye

Anyway, my wife, I had her by divine revelation on a feast day in Madrid where the passion of Christ was celebrated. I heard a voice saying, “You will marry the first young girl you meet at the border.” I heard this voice with such a strength, with such a power that I was taken with intense fear. I had to stay in Madrid for three or four days, I decided to leave immediately to escape this mysterious word. And above all so powerful. So, I took the train immediately, I got to the border. At the border it was night, I asked for a hotel, I was shown a hotel; I went at this hotel run by an old lady. The next morning when I woke up, while getting up, I saw through a screen gap a young girl with a long nose, and I said: “it is not possible, it is not that one!” I immediately phoned a friend of mine who was in Bordeaux to tell him that I was arriving by train to stop at his house before going to Paris, and then I went immediately on the train which was very crowded at that time, and I had difficulties to find a place. I found an occupied place by the window, which I took, and finally before the train departed, I saw a young girl, the same girl I had seen at the border, who was heading next to me with a large trunk. I looked at her, I let her put her trunk all alone where it was needed, and I told me:  “damn it, it is her!”

Bertrand Catry

Ah, I laugh… It is pretty funny!

Francis Delaye

She sat next to me, in a reserved place, there was no other.  So, I asked her: “What time does the train leave?” So, she thought he is cheeky this one, as he left already earlier because he knew it was full, he must know the time! So, she said: “yes”, and then we started the conversion and finally we talked about my mother’s fibrillary paint. I tell her if you want to see my mother in Paris, I give you my address, and I gave her my card, she gave me her name. I left her in Bordeaux, and we saw each other after that after making an appointment with my mother in the workshop.

Bertrand Catry

When you look at the time, the layers of time, did you know that you were going to embark not only as a husband but as a father? You will have six children with Evelyne!

Francis Delaye

I thought we could have 12. My wife only wanted three.

Bertrand Catry

Why twelve?

Francis Delaye

We had six.

Bertrand Catry

Yes.

Francis Delaye

For my wife it was hard to have six already. Especially since they were born very close together.

Bertrand Catry

Francis Delaye in the world, with first his first nucleus: the family. The second nucleus, the business manager you were? You were a business manager, what relationship did you have in the early days? It seems to me that you had the responsibility that your own father gave you in his time for Peugeot’s South American interests; what relationship did you have with your collaborators? How could you have been a Christian boss? If you were a Christian boss! Maybe not a Christian boss in the ordinary of your professional days with your collaborators! Do you remember how it was?

Francis Delaye

I was first a sub-boss. It was my father who held everything in hand. And I and my brother had just to be obeying. We were the little sub-bosses. Until the day when the house almost went bankrupt because it had suddenly lost all its customers, and I found myself at the head, with only one of my little clients of nothing at all that began to develop to allow me to survive.

In my relationships with my clients, one day I asked myself the question by asking someone, telling him: “but in the end we swindle customers by making them pay commissions!”

Bertrand Catry

We are swindling customers! Yes.

Francis Delaye

And the person I was talking, told me: “Look at my heart.” And I understood that one must look at the heart of Christ in everything one does.

Bertrand Catry

Until into the relationship with your customers! And so, here you are telling us that there is a change of relationship; the relationship is no longer a single business relationship but a relationship in which the business becomes purely an excuse to be in this heart to heart with this gentleman whom the Lord sends to you, let him be a client, let him be a collaborator.  You have finished your career – you said earlier – with only one person, in fact, an agent and a secretary.

Francis Delaye

With my brother.

Bertrand Catry

With your brother!

Francis Delaye

Not only with my brother, but my brother got along very badly with my father who was very authoritarian as I told you, and relations between the two were quite strained a few times, and I had to intervene often to calm those relationships.

Bertrand Catry

Moderator, then, too. All right.

Did you feel…, still, you oversaw this second-generation company! Beyond this pretext-meeting of the company to enter this heart to heart with others, did you feel like a social boss, a Christian boss? Has the doctrine of the Church influenced you in the conduct of your business?

Francis Delaye

To tell the truth, the Church for me it is relations with Christ. It is a mystical relationship if you will. All the church traditions, all this, are quite blurred and I did not try to find out if I had Christian relations or not, I was content to be myself with Christ together in everything I did.

Bertrand Catry

All right, Francis.

So, family, business, the third circle, in sort of, of your entourage, of your relationship of yourself with the world, with others, I remember that you had mentioned the different services you would have liked to have in the Catholic world; you rendered some services to church, you have been catechist, how was it?

Francis Delaye

Yes, we were very much in contact with Monsignor Hardi, who was not Bishop at the time so who was simply the parish priest of St. Francis Xavier. We had a lot of very close relations with him, and we were his catechist for the parish and Evelyne was the lay first lady of that church. And we have been in contact with a lot of priests who were invited to lunch or dinner, one of whom became Cardinal, which allowed me to put myself in touch with the Pope.

Bertrand Catry

So, this radiant life in your community is illustrated by catechistic work; also, in a way do you consider that the prayer that becomes unceasing for you at that time and the Eucharist that you practice twice a day, do you consider it a church service? Could one consider it, you know, in these charitable works that are given to others? Can one really understand that this prayer, which will take in an unceasing way most of the use of your time that you make of your days, can we really consider that you are doing a service to the Church by praying for the world twice a day?

Francis Delaye

This prayer first, these two Masses a day, it was after, when I was retired. Because when you must work you don’t have time to go to Mass twice a day.

Bertrand Catry

Of course!

Francis Delaye

But I was not trying to do a special service to the Church, I was in Eucharistic communion, if you will, inwardly with Christ all the time. Since my conversion this is what I have been.

Bertrand Catry

Family father, husband, business leader, volunteer in the various church services in St. Francis Xavier, and finally perhaps the fourth level, the fourth circle, and not the least, your work as a sculptor and as a painter. What does this work of sculpture and painting reveal about your relationship with others, with the world? Is it a springboard? Is it a hyphen? When you sculpt, when you paint, Francis Delaye, you do it in isolation in your ivory tower with yourself? Or do you do it because you want to tell things to the world, to the people?

Francis Delaye

It was not in isolation, as I said.

Bertrand Catry

I ask you again.

Francis Delaye

I was always in contact with Christ in everything I did, even in my works as a common painter who had no religious subject, and more when I had religious subjects that I dealt with. But for the passion of painting, I was indeed, I wanted to seek to become professional; my father gave me a free year to try to conform to that desire. It finally took place at the Flea Fair where for a year I exhibited my paintings, with problems with a gallery owner who had his stand right in front of me and who looked after young painters. But who finally slapped me publicly by saying to me: “You have no right to make such a painting!” I did not answer him, but finally when he died, the secretary he had with him and whose name was Mrs. Bresnotwis, told me: “All the works my boss presented, I did not like them, but what you do I love them a lot, I put myself at your service.” I told her I did not have any money; she said, “It does not matter, you will not pay me, I am putting myself at your service.” And finally, she managed, like this, to sell a dozen paintings to a Danish amateur.

Bertrand Catry

Your work is important, your work in any case pictorial. Your many paintings with different phases obviously inspired at the origin of Cubism, but of course with all the stereoscopy that can be found there and tachism in the 90s. Your work, in fact, if one wants to know it better, one must go to Denmark, of course since you have straight off been bought all your paintings. You told me something that really amazed me, that really made my attention, you say that in the end your work, I quote you, is “inappropriate” – it is you who say it – compared to other more charitable works that you would have maybe imagine doing. You say that deep down “in my painting and in my sculpture, I was still too proud.” Am I wrong?

Francis Delaye

No no. What I knew was that I had too much self-love in fact to make a true representation of the world, of this world. That is what Art is. And for example, I read Cézanne’s writings; I read them with passion because I was interested in everything, I was interested in Impressionist art, but I was astonished by this painter’s complete emptiness about spiritual life. While I, spiritual life and art seemed to be linked.

Bertrand Catry

Heard, Francis, it is important what you tell us about Cézanne who has been carried to the skies but who at least hides a part of emptiness, vacuity. Remind us, remind this to our listeners, you have been under the teaching of the sculptor Laurens, it seems to me, and Caesar.

Francis Delaye

No, Caesar was a student with me at the School of Fine Arts.

Bertrand Catry

Student with you at the School of Fine Arts. What were you exchanging with Caesar?

Francis Delaye

Already, I had no special relationship. He was in a corner of the workshop. My boss, Master Gaumont, was telling him you know what you want, you don’t need me.

Bertrand Catry

Which workshop was it?

Francis Delaye

And for Laurens I was in awe of his works; and at first, I was imitating his works. Of these works that I have done, there is only one that was saved from the fire of my workshop and which was given to one of my cousins. But Laurens invited me one day to come to his house when he was hosting a famous artist, whose name I can not remember, a famous Jewish artist to whom I showed works that I had done according to Laurens.

Bertrand Catry

All right. This workshop, tell us, this workshop was the workshop of La Grande Chaumière? Which one was it?

Francis Delaye

       Laurens’ one.

Bertrand Catry

Yes, you went to Laurens’ workshop, but when you were exchanging with Caesar, were you both at the Fine Arts or were you at the Grande Chaumière Academy?

Francis Delaye

At the Fine Arts.

Bertrand Catry

And also, at the Grande Chaumière Academy?

Francis Delaye

Sorry?

Bertrand Catry

At the Grande Chaumière Academy?

Francis Delaye

No. I went to the Grande Chaumière Academy because I was more interested in painting than sculpture, to tell the truth. I did the sculpture because I thought it was necessary for the question of relief in the secret of great classical painting, but I was mostly attracted by the painting I practiced at La Grande Chaumière, with drawing. I drew a lot when I was a student, a lot.

Bertrand Catry

Francis Delaye, there we understand a little better, we have some keys to look in the lock to see and understand the man you are, and to better understand his extremely rich inner life. Excuse me perhaps for the triviality of this question but, basically if we hear your testimony about your family, your professional career, your career as an artist, and also your testimonies as a cooperator of the works of the Church, in a few words what were your…, I will say perhaps your few failures on the one hand, and on the other hand, to weigh everything, your greatest achievements in this long life of 97 years? What are the points you are still asking yourself about? That you might have treated differently?  Family, work, church services, painting?  And on the contrary these points of success on these same subjects, family, work, painting, Church?

Francis Delaye

From the family, when the children were small, we were reciting the rosary, a rosary of Lourdes exceptionally large to amuse the children. But from this faith it remains only one of my daughters really practicing, but a little fundamentalist, which disturbs people a little. Because they do not understand that someone who is imperfect can be at the same time good practitioner. But that is a failure in fact that I think is part of the Lord’s views; and anyway, I think he is the one who acts in everything I do.

Bertrand Catry

Precisely, Francis, we are going to discuss this other part of the leg: the man we declined according to these four layers. And then it is the tibia that marks the extension of man, of this expansion to God. I have four questions in the same way. You say that you are kneaded, that you spend your days to announce, to prepare the second human advent of Jesus Christ. What does that mean? This second human advent of Jesus Christ on which you deploy a totally new theology, it seems to me, at least that Vatican II did not talk about, and in which you stand out from many men of prayer and theologians who for thirty years have spoken to us about God, of Jesus Christ on the subject of the Love of abandonment, when you, Francis Delaye, propose to the world by the human advent for the second time of Jesus Christ, that this coming lies in an underlying way the divine humility revealed by the humiliation of Jesus Christ. The question is awfully long. What does this second human advent of our Lord Jesus Christ mean, and what does it mean for people who do not believe?

Francis Delaye

This second advent in fact, it was announced truly little, only by some people.  And in the Gospels, there is nothing that speaks specifically of it. But if you want, it is a vision of the palm Friday as it took place in the time of Jesus, that would be done universally so that Jesus Christ is glorified on earth by gathering all around him before the event of the anti-Christ.

Bertrand Catry

Did this second advent that you prophesied, Francis Delaye, has this second advent begun? Second sub-question, if it has started or if it has not started this second advent, what consequences does this have for our societies and for our youth?

Francis Delaye

To tell the truth I think it started in the year 2000. But it must first be in the hands of the little souls who are willing to receive the heart of Christ without reservation to publish it to others. And this will allow at that time, in a general conversion, generalized, but with fights that will not necessarily always be in favor of the good, but sometimes enemies of Christ. It would allow a time of freeness of human nature and a really flourishing time of human nature for a while. There is the New-Age who has secular prophets who have had a certain vision of these things, but not well appreciated because they are not close to the revelation of the Pope. That is too bad!  But they do think that in a way, too.

Bertrand Catry

I understand in your words, by deduction, that one of the consequences for societies could be greater unity. Unity among believers among themselves, and unity of believers among themselves with non-believers in Jesus Christ dead and resurrected. So, this unity, this renewal of the Church, it was announced by Vatican II by Lumen Gentium and Gaudium and Spes – excuse me if I skin Latin – I remember these few particularly important encyclicals. Pope Francis has just released  Fratelli Tutti,  and when I read the encyclical I hear Francis Delaye going so far in the unity of Christians and non-Christians that he had the audacity to write a book “ridding” Jesus Christ of the Christian religion, in any case by offering men the power of his divinity beyond religion, which this unity has this chance to put, in your book that you have written, to put…, you have had this title absolutely… perhaps it is prescient in this advent in any case prophetic, you speak of Jesus no longer as God but Master of secularism. Master of secularism! That is to say, this master of secularism who, basically, returning to the man Jesus Christ, would allow all men to finally get along and to know if not eternal bliss in any case to no longer have to fight in their religion but to propose precisely Jesus Christ Master of secularism. It is huge! It is a giant name! It is absolutely gigantic!

Francis Delaye

It is proposing God without fear to everyone. Because in fact there are many people who are indifferent, who withdraw to the daily life that already has its problems, but they do not realize that they are in the hand of God but of the Principle of Life of the universes that directs everything. And Jesus Christ announces that one does not have to be afraid of god’s demands, which are first passion before the resurrection, but which are taken over by each one according to what he can bear and not beyond.

Bertrand Catry

Francis Delaye you are on the footsteps, on the trail it seems to me in fact, of these great theologians who renewed Christianity in the second half of the twentieth century. I think of Henri de Lubac, of Yves Congar, of Maurice Zundel, of “Make me decrease so that I grow up“. Tell us, Francis, would you be a giant of 20th and 21st century catholicity? Are you a giant?

Francis Delaye

No, I told you, I am nothing at all. I am just a steppingstone for a theologian who will come and explain everything in detail in the big books that need to be done on this subject. I only indicate notes, only poor notes in my head that happen to me, but of myself I am really nothing.

Bertrand Catry

Thank you, Francis Delaye, for telling us that you are this giant of nothing. It is very comforting and very encouraging for all the pretensions and prides that constantly distort the reality of our daily vocations. You have told us again and again in these four interviews. This last interview in any case concludes on the subject that you have really dealt with in great depth. You gave us things to understand, for the public, of your intimacy, points of friction, points of authenticity that there are of the man with his hopes, the man of faith, his values, his beliefs. We are going to meet in a few days, maybe in a few weeks, God willing, in your good house in Chartres. Thank you so much.